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Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

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Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Kitkat on Fri 13 Jun 2014, 09:55

This Friday the Thirteenth actually coincides with a full moon as well.   obgob   A rare occurrence.

Specifically, the full moon occurs at precisely 12:11 am EDT on Thursday night — i.e., early Friday morning. That means the 13th will coincide with the full moon for residents of the Eastern time zone (as well as South America, Europe, Africa, and Asia), but not the Central, Mountain, or Pacific time zones.

The next time this happens will be 13th August, 2049

The last time it happened was October 13, 2000.



But what's the story/stories with the superstitions that go with both of these situations?

Of course, there's absolutely no evidence that Friday the 13th is unlucky, or that the full moon changes human behavior.

To delve deeper into the math behind this phenomenon — and the evidence regarding the (nonexistent) effects of full moons and Friday the 13th — read on.
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Honey Moon

Post by Kitkat on Fri 13 Jun 2014, 10:03

As if that's not enough, we're also having a'Honey Moon' ...

The full 'Honey Moon' – the June full moon – has not fallen on a Friday 13th since 1919 and the next one will not take place until 2098.

The event will be broadcast live online from Slooh.com, with expert commentary from astronomer Bob Berman at 6.30pm PDT (2.30am GMT).

It will be streamed live for two hours from the Institute of Astrophysics of the Canary Islands and the Pontificia Universidad Católica De Chile.

During the Honey Moon, the moon appears to have a honey or champagne colour because it is low on the horizon, so light has to travel further to reach Earth.

Observers are also invited to take pictures and follow updates using the hashtag #Sloohhoneymoon.

The June full moon is dubbed the Honey Moon because bee hives are full of honey at this time of year. Traditionally the honey would have been made into mead, which was drunk after weddings held on Summer Solstice on 21 June, Veraveg.org reports.

It also marks the moon being at its lowest point in the sky for a full moon of the year, appearing just 12 degrees above the horizon.

Speaking to Universe Today, Berman said: "Is this Full Moon of June the true origin of the word honeymoon, since it is amber, and since weddings were traditionally held this month? That phrase dates back nearly half a millennium to 1552, but one thing has changed: weddings have shifted, and are now most often held in August or September.

"The idea back then was that a marriage is like the phases of the Moon, with the Full Moon being analogous to a wedding. Meaning, it's the happiest and 'brightest' time in a relationship."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/full-honey-moon-watch-rare-friday-13th-celestial-event-live-online-1452354


I can't quite make out whether we've missed the most spectacular viewing here in the UK, or not.
Says here that the peak is at 12:13 a.m. EDT - but what time is that here?  shrug 

The superstitious may want to steer clear of black cats this Friday the 13th, but venturing outside very early in the morning will be worthwhile—you'll be able to catch the spectacular full "honey moon" in the night sky.

The honey moon officially reaches its full moon phase at 12:13 a.m. EDT on Friday morning for eastern North America. But its honey hues will shine most brightly in the early evening.

With the sun's path across the sky at its highest during this month of the summer solstice, the moon is at its lowest, which keeps the lunar orb close to the horizon and makes it appear more amber than other full moons this year.

The amber colors are due to the scattering of longer wavelengths of light by dust and pollution in our atmosphere. "It is a similar phenomenon as seen at sunset, when sunlight is scattered towards the red end of the spectrum, making the sun's disk appear orange-red to the naked-eye," says astronomer Raminder Singh Samra of the H. R. MacMillan Space Centre in Vancouver, Canada.

The most spectacular part of the so-called honey moon begins hours before midnight, due to an illusion by which the moon appears larger to sky-watchers when it's near the horizon than when it hangs high in the sky.

Researchers aren't quite sure what causes this optical illusion of a larger moon near the horizon, but they suspect it has something to do with the human mind trying to make sense of the moon's proximity to more familiar objects like mountains, trees and houses in the foreground.

The Moon at Its Closest

The monthly full moon always looks like a big disk, but because its orbit around the Earth is egg-shaped, there are times in the lunar cycle when the moon is at its shortest distance from Earth (called perigee), some 224,976 miles (362,065 kilometers) away.

This month the perigee just happens to coincide with the full phase, which may make it appear unusually large to some keen-eyed sky-watchers.

"The moon illusion should be more prominent during this full moon as it will graze closer to the horizon than at any other time of the year," Samra says. "This will make the moon appear more amber than other full moons of the year.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/full-honey-moon-watch-rare-friday-13th-celestial-event-live-online-1452354
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Whiskers on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 10:55

FRiday the 13th or Wednesday the 18th, makes no difference.  Whether the moon is a honey moon on Wednesday or Friday or a new moon on a Sunday doesn't really matter in the full scheme of things.  It's just another day in an eternal cycle.   timeglass   We can experience beautiful sunrises and sunsets any day of the week or year.  No big deal to witness the moon a different colour one day in so many 100 days?
Just saying my penny worth.   Smile
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:20

I agree Whiskas. There's far too much superstitious nonsense involved here. Superstition is driven by fear but it also causes fear.
If you believe that eg walking under a ladder carries dreadful risks, then you may avoid doing it by stepping out into a road --with
more tragic consequences. It's time we all rid ourselves of superstition. That, of course, begs the question, "What is/is not superstition??


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Kitkat on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:38

Feather wrote:It's time we all rid ourselves of superstition.

Most superstitions are just a bit of fun, and I think that's how the majority of people associate them, but it's true to say that many of those 'superstitions' actually do have a meaningful practical origin and they have just been added to and varied over time, traditions which started from little tips that have been handed down through the generations.
I love looking up and finding out about their origins and how these traditions actually got started - like, for example, the giving of gifts at Christmas, etc.

Feather wrote:That, of course, begs the question, "What is/is not superstition??
Yes, I think there's a relatively recent tendency in some areas to refer to some things incorrectly as "superstition". I must admit to being a bit frustrated - annoyed, even - when I see that happen.  shtum 
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 21:40

Kitkat wrote:Yes, I think there's a relatively recent tendency in some areas to refer to some things incorrectly as "superstition".  I must admit to being a bit frustrated - annoyed, even - when I see that happen.   shtum 

I find the worst one to be people who think that 'superstition' refers to "walking under ladders" and such like. These are merely a subclass known as "cultural superstitions". Superstition is a much wider topic than just that.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 22:47

Yes, thank you. I do know that. I merely posted a simple example off the top of my head. OK? yawn 


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Whiskers on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 23:22

Subclass? Cultural superstitions?

I don't know about that, but I do know the myths surrounding Friday the 13th is superstition, probably the most common one, on a par with not walking under ladders.  shrug 
What is the "wider topic", UC?
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Stardust on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 11:39

The sky was clear and the full moon was beautiful to see.

Played Euromillions on Friday 13th just in case... lost, so nothing new there. But I always say you never know, because the person who wins had no more hope of winning than the rest of us; it's always a lucky day for someone somewhere and one day it might be mine.

Strange that some people think Friday 13th is lucky and others that it brings bad luck.


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 11:41

Whiskers wrote:What is the "wider topic", UC?

Well, superstition is a topic I no longer talk about as it's almost impossible to discuss it due to people's misunderstanding of it.

It's another case of the academic study of superstition being quite different from the general usage of the word.

It's a very wide-ranging topic that looks at false interpretations of external reality, including their causes and uses.

I have actually gone through all of this before (on SL) but obviously, no one has taken a blind bit of notice! thumbdown 

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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 12:19

Ahem! I have taken on board NEARLY everything you say. The only exception is that you SEEM to hold the view that science in the future will still not solve the mysteries of the paranormal. I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption.


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Kitkat on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 12:34

Umberto Cocopop wrote:
Whiskers wrote:What is the "wider topic", UC?

Well, superstition is a topic I no longer talk about as it's almost impossible to discuss it due to people's misunderstanding of it.

It's another case of the academic study of superstition being quite different from the general usage of the word.

It's a very wide-ranging topic that looks at false interpretations of external reality, including their causes and uses.

I have actually gone through all of this before (on SL) but obviously, no one has taken a blind bit of notice! thumbdown 


 violin2   I remember that discussion, Umbo.   I wouldn't say that it was a case of no-one taking "a blind bit of notice" - it's just that the discussion never really produced a satisfactory (unanimous) conclusion as to what Superstition actually is (or isn't).
IIRC, the reference to superstition came within a topic entitled 'Define Mediumship' - and I believe you (and some others) were putting forward the notion that Mediumship comes under the umbrella of 'superstition' - and that is something I had to disagree with.

There are many definitions given as to the meaning of the word 'superstition', and some of those definitions differ greatly.  That is not to say that any of them are wrong - it's just that 'superstitions'  by their very nature, change through the years, depending on the cultures and environments of those who entertain them.

The definition that I have found most agreeable to the way a lot of people (including myself) view 'superstition' is here:
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/superstitious
Superstitious describes a belief in chance or magic. If you're superstitious, you may avoid walking under ladders, spilling salt, or passing black cats — all because you think they will bring you bad luck.

Plenty of people don't think of themselves as superstitious, yet they may do things like knock on wood or refuse to open an umbrella indoors. Or they believe their team will win if they wear their lucky socks. These actions are all superstitious, demonstrating a belief based on magic or luck rather than on reason. The Latin word that superstitious comes from is superstitionem, excessive fear of the gods.

I can't see that 'Mediumship' has any place in there.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 13:23

Feather wrote:Ahem! I have taken on board NEARLY everything you say. The only exception is that you SEEM to hold the view that science in the future will still not solve the mysteries of the paranormal. I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption.

That doesn't seem to me to be anything I'd say - I certainly don't think it!

I have stated in response to the "one day science will explain..." type of thinking that science won't one day explain something if it isn't real. If it isn't real today science can't somehow make it real in the fusture. Science can only discover what's actually real.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 13:33

Kitkat wrote:The definition that I have found most agreeable to the way a lot of people (including myself) view 'superstition' is here:
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/superstitious

That's defining culturally-learned superstitions!

You've given an example of exactly why I don't bother discussing 'superstition' as a subject any more.

Kitkat wrote:I can't see that 'Mediumship' has any place in there.

Mediumship isn't the type of cultural superstition you're referring to. It comes under the category of Quasi-Religious Superstition.

The two main categories of superstition are: religious superstitions and secular superstitions. Things like mediumships, ghosts. etc. blur the distinction somewhat but they're usually classed as "quasi-religious" as they contain the belief in other-worldly entities etc.

Superstition is not just about "walking under ladders".
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 13:37

If it isn't real today science can't somehow make it real in the fusture. Science can only discover what's actually real" (UC).

There's that little word, "if" again. There's where a doubt is expressed. It shows that there is no certainty that it is not real so it isn't logical to finish your post as you have. I say,"If it is real, science will discover it."



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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Kitkat on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 13:38

Umberto Cocopop wrote:You've given an example of exactly why I don't bother discussing 'superstition' as a subject any more.

I know. giggle    sidestep
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 13:44

Feather wrote: There's that little word, "if" again. There's where a doubt is expressed. It shows that there is no certainty that it is not real so it isn't logical to finish your post as you have. I say,"If it is real, science will discover it."

There's no "certainty" in any knowledge we have at all.

And do I detect an Appeal to Ignorance in there?

No one's proved it doesn't exist......
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 14:07

Yes but I meant that what you wrote seems to suggest a foregone conclusion as to why science will not discover anything more re the paranormal ie that it is without question not real. The difference in my thinking is that I do not make any assumptions--either that it is real or that it is unreal. I am completely neutral in that respect. Don't you see how we differ?


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 15:28

Feather wrote:Yes but I meant that what you wrote seems to suggest a foregone conclusion as to why science will not discover anything more re the paranormal ie that it is without question not real. The difference in my thinking is that I do not make any assumptions--either that it is real or that it is unreal. I am completely neutral in that respect. Don't you see how we differ?

You're complaining about me using the word "if" and then criticising me for taking an absolute position! I'm not taking an absolute position.

The overall situation is:

1) If the paranormal isn't real there is no scientific discovery that could be made in the future that will make it real.

2) If the paranormal is real, a scientific discovery could possibly be made which will explain it.

The "one day science will explain..." argument actually presumes that (2) is correct. All I'm doing is saying that option (1) can't be ignored.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 15:34

We're in total agreement then.  so there 


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 16:19

Feather wrote:We're in total agreement then.  so there 

Looks like it. :thumb: 
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Whiskers on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 09:03

Stardust wrote:Played Euromillions on Friday 13th just in case... lost, so nothing new there. But I always say you never know, because the person who wins had no more hope of winning than the rest of us; it's always a lucky day for someone somewhere and one day it might be mine.

That's true Stardust. And if you're not in, you can't win.  :thumb: 
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 09:06

But whether you win or not has nothing to do with the date!!


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Whiskers on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 09:09

Feather wrote:But whether you win or not has nothing to do with the date!!

That's true too Feather.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 09:36

I've just had a thought--unusual, I know. What about the condition called OCD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?
Does it have its roots in superstition? Why should a sufferer feel safe, fulfilled, when he/she has performed a task eg 10 times instead of the normal once? His brain is telling him that, if he doesn't do it 10 times, something bad will happen.There is no logic in this and yet OCD is an extremely difficult condition to overcome. Like superstition, it feeds off fear. What causes it? Is it an inherited tendency? There are different manifestations of it, some hardly noticeable but some even life changing. I haven't looked up any definitions of it. These are just my thoughts and questions. Is it a manifestation of superstition or something else?


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Kitkat on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 12:04

Feather wrote:I've just had a thought--unusual, I know. What about the condition called OCD,  Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?
Does it have its roots in superstition? Why should a sufferer feel safe, fulfilled, when he/she has performed a task eg 10 times instead of the normal once? His brain is telling him that, if he doesn't do it 10 times, something bad will happen.There is no logic in this and yet OCD is an extremely difficult condition to overcome. Like superstition, it feeds off fear. What causes it? Is it an inherited tendency? There are different manifestations of it, some hardly noticeable but some even life changing. I haven't looked up any definitions of it. These are just my thoughts and questions. Is it a manifestation of superstition or something else?

Nah, superstition "fears" tend to be learned, OCD "fears" are perceived.

The first are usually relatively harmless; the second can be crippling...


Either way, scientists can't agree:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/articles/disorders/causesofocd.shtml

The community of scientists studying obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) has been split into two factions by a bitter feud over the exact cause of the illness. On one side is a group who believe that obsessive-compulsive behaviour is a psychological disorder.

On the other side are scientists who believe that obsessive-compulsive behaviour is caused by abnormalities in the brain.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 13:09

But aren't psychological problems caused by the brain as well? I don't see the distinction here.
OCD's range is very wide, from hardly noticeable to life changing. The cause is fear and anxiety.
This can be inherited. Its effects can sometimes be lessened but often can't be cured.

I think people can choose to be superstitious or not but OCD sufferers don't make the choice .
Their tendency to suffer from it is ingrained in them as a result of their ancestry. Psychological
problems can also be inherited as well as being the result of trauma earlier in life.


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 15:31

OCD and superstition look superficially similar but they're not related.

When people with OCD are tested for superstitious thinking and behaviours using standardized tests, they show no more tendency towards superstition that anyone else.

In superstition there's something called "negative magic" or "taboo" which is the idea that bad things can be prevented from happening by the performance of some, usually ritualistic, behaviour. A common cultural example is "touch wood".

This idea that a ritualistic behaviour can prevent something bad from happening seems to be incredibly similar to the purpose of ritualistic behaviours in people with OCD. But, it turns out that the root cause of OCD is not superstition.

Yes, it surprised me too! I'm not sure what the cause of OCD is, but it doesn't seem to be an extreme form of superstitious thinking.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 16:13

Surely the thinking that dictates what an OCD sufferer does to feel safe is at least linked to superstition in that the sufferer thinks that by performing certain rituals, he will avoid bad things. He performs the ritual as a safeguard whereas in reality there is no connection between the two. Whether something nasty happens--or doesn't happen-- to a person has nothing to do with his rituals.Is that not a form of superstition?


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 18:27

I think that the "taboo" rituals that those with OCD engage in could well be described as being classic superstition, but what seems to be the case is that OCD is not a case of "superstition gone mad". It doesn't seem to arise because of superstitious thinking. And besides the OCD behaviours, those with OCD are no more superstitious than anyone else.

OCD isn't a form of superstition nor is it caused by superstition even if the resulting behaviours are superstitious in nature.

I think that's the overall case although I don't know enough about OCD to say what it actually is.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Feather on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 22:10

I agree. I think OCD takes over a person when their anxieties get too much for them but it doesn't happen to everyone either so we can't say that the cause of OCD is anxiety. Many people feel anxiety but they don't all have OCD. It's likely that it's a brain malfunction due to an imbalance of chemicals. After all, OCD and clinical depression are linked. Some people suffer from anxiety, nerves, fear--call it what you will--far more than others. That's the hereditary factor---or it may result from traumatic experiences.


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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Kitkat on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 01:05

I have a friend who shows signs of many of the issues (symptoms?) associated with OCD - has done for many years now. She is definitely not a superstitious person, in any way. Superstition has nothing whatsoever to do with it - in her case anyway.
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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Kitkat on Sun 08 Jan 2017, 22:07

Oh no!  I've just realised ...  the 13th of this month falls on a Fridayscared   (January 13th 2017).  wary

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Re: Friday the Thirteenth - AND a full moon!

Post by Whiskers on Mon 09 Jan 2017, 16:07

Lots of people won't even leave their house to go to work on Friday 13th, just stay at home and not even get out of bed!  For some, even that turns out to be unlucky.

Even staying in bed couldn't help this man

Friday 13th August, 1976, was particularly unlucky for New York man Daz Baxter.

Having elected to stay in bed to ward off bad luck, the floor of his apartment block collapsed and he fell six storeys to his death.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/friday-13th-arrives-13-tales-6818913

I dont know how accurate this story is, but I have heard it before -
Retired bus conductor Bob Renphrey of North Wales decided to spend every Friday 13th in bed after a run of bad luck on the fateful day.

Among other misfortunes he wrote off four cars, got made redundant, fell into a river, crashed a motorcycle and walked through a plate glass door.

Can't blame him, really.

...and it didn't stop when he died

When Bob died of cancer in 1998, his widow Betty – who on previous Friday 13ths had fallen downstairs, been hit by falling guttering and been hospitalised after Bob hit her in the face with a stick he was throwing to a dog - decided to book his funeral for Friday 13th March as a final tribute

Alas, all Rhyl’s undertakers were too busy.

“Bob would have seen the funny side,” said Mrs Renphrey.

And there's an official word for it - paraskevidekatriaphobia means fear of Friday the 13th! (in case you didnt already know). sidestep
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Triskaidekaphobia

Post by Stardust on Mon 09 Jan 2017, 20:52

Some people consider that 13th is lucky especially if it's on a Friday.
That's why there are special lotteries held on Friday 13th.

Fear of the number 13 is called triskaidekaphobia !
So that's two new words learnt with Whiskers' above.

Hey, Whiskers, congratulations on being the Kat that got the cream! bravo


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