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Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

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Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Kitkat on Wed 21 May 2014, 17:09



In a neat demonstration of E=mc 2, physicists believe they can create electrons and positrons from colliding photons






Split laser beam.  
In theory light and matter are interchangeable, but a practical demonstration was thought to be impossible.

Photograph: Lawrence Manning/Corbis



Researchers have worked out how to make matter from pure light and are drawing up plans to demonstrate the feat within the next 12 months.

The theory underpinning the idea was first described 80 years ago by two physicists who later worked on the first atomic bomb. At the time they considered the conversion of light into matter impossible in a laboratory.

But in a report published on Sunday, physicists at Imperial College London claim to have cracked the problem using high-powered lasers and other equipment now available to scientists.

"We have shown in principle how you can make matter from light," said Steven Rose at Imperial. "If you do this experiment, you will be taking light and turning it into matter."

The scientists are not on the verge of a machine that can create everyday objects from a sudden blast of laser energy. The kind of matter they aim to make comes in the form of subatomic particles invisible to the naked eye.

The original idea was written down by two US physicists, Gregory Breit and John Wheeler, in 1934. They worked out that – very rarely – two particles of light, or photons, could combine to produce an electron and its antimatter equivalent, a positron. Electrons are particles of matter that form the outer shells of atoms in the everyday objects around us.

But Breit and Wheeler had no expectations that their theory would be proved any time soon. In their study, the physicists noted that the process was so rare and hard to produce that it would be "hopeless to try to observe the pair formation in laboratory experiments".

Oliver Pike, the lead researcher on the study, said the process was one of the most elegant demonstrations of Einstein's famous relationship that shows matter and energy are interchangeable currencies. "The Breit-Wheeler process is the simplest way matter can be made from light and one of the purest demonstrations of E=mc2," he said.

Writing in the journal Nature Photonics, the scientists describe how they could turn light into matter through a number of separate steps. The first step fires electrons at a slab of gold to produce a beam of high-energy photons. Next, they fire a high-energy laser into a tiny gold capsule called a hohlraum, from the German for "empty room". This produces light as bright as that emitted from stars. In the final stage, they send the first beam of photons into the hohlraum where the two streams of photons collide.

The scientists' calculations show that the setup squeezes enough particles of light with high enough energies into a small enough volume to create around 100,000 electron-positron pairs.

The process is one of the most spectacular predictions of a theory called quantum electrodynamics (QED) that was developed in the run up to the second world war. "You might call it the most dramatic consequence of QED and it clearly shows that light and matter are interchangeable," Rose told the Guardian.

The scientists hope to demonstrate the process in the next 12 months. There are a number of sites around the world that have the technology. One is the huge Omega laser in Rochester, New York. But another is the Orion laser at Aldermaston, the atomic weapons facility in Berkshire.

A successful demonstration will encourage physicists who have been eyeing the prospect of a photon-photon collider as a tool to study how subatomic particles behave. "Such a collider could be used to study fundamental physics with a very clean experimental setup: pure light goes in, matter comes out. The experiment would be the first demonstration of this," Pike said.

Andrei Seryi, director of the John Adams Institute at Oxford University, said: "It's breathtaking to think that things we thought are not connected, can in fact be converted to each other: matter and energy, particles and light. Would we be able in the future to convert energy into time and vice versa?"

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/may/18/matter-light-photons-electrons-positrons
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Thu 29 May 2014, 11:47

It seems from that we are returning to The Bible for knowledge???

"And God said, "Let there be light and there was light." ".
All the rest would follow then???


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Jamboree on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 20:05

I don't see any bible connection here.  shrug  What they are talking about here is the exciting prospect of having found a way to demonstrate a theory that has been talked about and debated over for years but up untill now thought impossible to demonstrate in practical terms.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 21:18

Well, if I've understood the concept , it is that light can create matter. Yes? It follows then that the light mentioned in that quotation from The Bible was what created the matter which exists in the universe today. That's the connection to which I was referring.


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 02:17

Andrei Seryi, director of the John Adams Institute at Oxford University, said: "It's breathtaking to think that things we thought are not connected, can in fact be converted to each other: matter and energy, particles and light."

I think he might need to read up on what E=MC2 is all about!

It's interesting and should work.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 08:54

Yep. That's the holy grail at the moment. I don't begin to understand the theory as I stopped Science in Grade 3. I seem to remember, however, that Einstein (Sp?) has been proved to be wrong in some of his findings. I don't even know which one (s) but maybe you can enlighten me.
BTW--How are you? It's good to know you're still around.


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:35

Nothing in Einstein's theories of relativity has ever been proved wrong.

However, he did think (as most did back then) that the universe was static and so to prevent everything collapsing in an almighty crunch under the force of gravity, he introduced the idea of a 'cosmological constant' - a force of expansion which countered the effects of gravity on a large scale.

He described the cosmological constant as the biggest blunder of his life. Instead of using a fudge to make things balance he could have used his equations to predict that the universe was expanding. This was what was found to be the case later on. So he missed that one - bloody thicko. Rolling Eyes 

The theories of relativity break down when used with quantum mechanics. This doesn't prove them wrong however. e.g. QM theories could be wrong!
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:57

Yes, a right thicko!! Glad I'm not like that. Could quantum theory be proved to be wrong , in your opinion?
It seems on the face of it to be pretty well established but, if it IS wrong, much recent thinking will go out the window. shrug 


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Kitkat on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 08:15

I guess there are possibilities for any theory to be proved wrong. It's probably far easier to prove a theory wrong if no tangible evidence is available to show that it is 'correct'.

Until that *demonstrable* scientific proof is available, it is always just going to be a theory.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 09:01

I agree, but until scientists get out of the lab and into field work, no progress will be made. Hunter explains why in his book.
The first change should be in the foregone conclusions which many of them have--that anything non-physical just does not exist.
Science rates personal experience very lowly whereas those researchers who have spent years out among different cultures think
otherwise.


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Kitkat on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 09:55

@Feather wrote:until scientists get out of the lab and into field work, no progress will be made. Hunter explains why in his book.
The first change should be in the foregone conclusions which many of them have--that anything non-physical just does not exist.
Science rates personal experience very lowly whereas those researchers who have spent years out among different cultures think otherwise.

Couldn't agree more! This is the very [main] point that Jack Hunter was making in his talk at the ASSAP 'Seriously Strange' Conference.

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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:53

Another important point Hunter makes is that belief, and especially intention, facilitates these anomalous states of altered consciousness which make such communications possible. This has given me something to think about: belief helps the process. I did not hold that view but rather was of the opinion that belief/ non belief should make no difference to the result. I thought that, if these experiences were real, they should occur in the natural scheme of things, belief being unnecessary. What I may have failed to take on board is that belief itself may be part of that naturally occurring process. surprised


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 11:08

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away"

There's a very good reason why scientists don't take faith seriously and why "believers" do.

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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 11:19

@Feather wrote:Could quantum theory be proved to be wrong , in your opinion?

If a theory can't be proved wrong then it isn't scientific!

However, most 'theories' in QM are better thought of a hypotheses or interpretations of evidence. There is more than one interpretation of the evidence for most things.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 11:26

@Kitkat wrote:I guess there are possibilities for any theory to be proved wrong.

A scientific theory must be capable of being proved wrong - i.e. capable of being tested in such a way that if it is false, it will fail.

@Kitkat wrote:It's probably far easier to prove a theory wrong if no tangible evidence is available to show that it is 'correct'.  

It's the exact opposite! If there's no evidence that can be examined in any way, shape or form, then you cannot prove something false.

Try disproving that God exists.

This is why the Appeal to Ignorance fallacy is so widely used in belief systems.

@Kitkat wrote:Until that *demonstrable* scientific proof is available, it is always just going to be a theory.

Do you understand the difference between the common use of the word theory and the term scientific theory? They're not the same thing.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 11:41

Well, that is the stance of orthodox science, right enough. The conclusion that the non-physical cannot exist is made before any discussion takes place. Hunter's opinion is that this is what stops valuable research in the field--which includes experiences from many cultures. The researchers themselves often had the same experiences as those they were researching. Lab only researchers are not likely to gain evidence of
the altered states of consciousness necessary to experience "other realities". That is why their "research" always puts the cart before the horse by saying there is only one reality--the physical.


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Kitkat on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 13:47

@Umberto Cocopop wrote:Do you understand the difference between the common use of the word theory and the term scientific theory? They're not the same thing.

 scratchhead   study 

Probably not.   geek

Therefore, without knowing what this 'difference' is, I'm most likely most definitely using the "common" term there.  obgob 

Common as muck, that's me ........   sidestep
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 16:38

@Feather wrote:Well, that is the stance of orthodox science, right enough. The conclusion that the non-physical cannot exist is made before any discussion takes place.

Science/scientists don't say that though. It's an argument that's used against science but it's wrong.

If something is claimed to be real but intangible then it can't be investigated scientifically. That's all.

@Feather wrote:Hunter's opinion is that this is what stops valuable research in the field

Then it sounds to me like he's making the usual argument: that science limits itself to only studying things that can be examined, so it needs a 'paradigm shift' so that it can examine things that can't be examined. Yes, the logic does need a bit of work!

@Feather wrote:--which includes experiences from many cultures.

And that's what it usually boils down to. Science needs to take anecdotes seriously and 'personal experience' at face value etc.

Such approaches may be fine for phenomenological or ethnographic studies but for hard science, they just can't be used to determine what's real from what's believed.

@Feather wrote:Lab only researchers are not likely to gain evidence of
the altered states of consciousness necessary to experience "other realities". That is why their "research" always puts the cart before the horse by saying there is only one reality--the physical.

Well, such states can be induced in the lab with drugs. Drugs alter brain chemistry so at least we can know that brain chemistry is a factor. It doesn't, indeed can't, prove that some other reality exists because we have no possible way of knowing whether an alternative reality actually exists in a form we can't detect.

That's the real absurdity with this type of argumentative approach. It's basically claiming that we ought to use subjective, intangible data as evidence of objective reality.

Such evidence cannot ever be sufficient to establish a claim because the evidence itself cannot ever be examined objectively - and it's required to be to be scientific.

If this argument is thought about for just a few minutes its absurdity should be apparent yet highly educated people, e.g. Rupert Sheldrake, go down this route of reasoning yet are often trained scientists!
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 17:09

OK. I understand what you are saying. Nobody is claiming that alternative realities actually exist, least of all Jack Hunter. What he is concerned with is the type of research that is current, especially among hard line scientists. Sometimes we first need to take a leap in the dark to reach new conclusions. I suspect this has been done in the past with positive results. Maybe you can give me an example??


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Fri 06 Jun 2014, 14:49

@Feather wrote:OK. I understand what you are saying. Nobody is claiming that alternative realities actually exist, least of all Jack Hunter.

But he does seem to be making the bogus argument just described though.

@Feather wrote:What he is concerned with is the type of research that is current, especially among hard line scientists.

What is a "hard line" scientist?

The use of such question-begging epithets is usually a clue that a poor quality argument is being presented.

@Feather wrote:Sometimes we first need to take a leap in the dark to reach new conclusions. I suspect this has been done in the past with positive results. Maybe you can give me an example??

Science is littered with with all sorts of imaginative leaps, hypotheses arising from intuition, guesswork and even dreams. Einstein himself was famous for using "thought experiments" to help formulate his theories of relativity. The one things that makes such hypotheses scientific, however, is that they are falsifiable - i.e. they can be tested in a meaningful way.

This is not the approach we're talking about here though. This is basically taking the approach that robust (i.e. proper, correct) scientific inquiry doesn't support what they want to believe therefore science must change in order to accommodate the belief.

I think I talked on here about people using 'reasonable sounding' arguments in order to preserve belief systems. I'd say that this 'science needs to change' argument is an example of that. It may sound reasonable when put forward rhetorically, but if you examine the bones of the argument, it's completely flawed.

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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Fri 06 Jun 2014, 17:22

I would just make two points here: what is not meaningful to one person can be meaningful to another. It is not an absolute term.
Hunter is not saying categorically that field work will prove anything, but that it would further the research, broaden it.
Altered states of consciousness seem to be the gateway to discovering other realities. Why not accept this as possible and take it from there?


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Fri 06 Jun 2014, 19:24

@Feather wrote:Altered states of consciousness seem to be the gateway to discovering other realities.

Well, if that's what he thinks then fair enough. But if he wants to discover anything, and he thinks science isn't up to the job, then he ought to explain how he's going to do it.

It's one thing dissin' science but but you need a valid alternative. It's no good resorting to non-science or pseudoscience and redefining it as some sort of paradigm-shifted 'new' science.

@Feather wrote:Why not accept this as possible and take it from there?

Anything can be deemed to be 'possible'. The problem is: how can we know whether something is real or not?

God might exist - it's possible! If someone claims to have had a mind-altering experience and met God in person in another reality, is this good evidence or any kind of proof that God really does exist or that another reality exists?

The fundamental problem is how can such claims be tested and their truth value discerned?
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Kitkat on Fri 06 Jun 2014, 19:48

@Umberto Cocopop wrote:Well, if that's what he thinks then fair enough. But if he wants to discover anything, and he thinks science isn't up to the job, then he ought to explain how he's going to do it.

That's precisely what he IS doing.  http://paranthropologyjournal.weebly.com/free-pdf.html


Established in 2010, “Paranthropology: Journal of Anthropological Approaches to the Paranormal" is a free on-line journal devoted to the promotion of social-scientific approaches to the study of paranormal experiences, beliefs and phenomena in all of their varied guises. The journal aims to foster an interdisciplinary dialogue on issues of the paranormal, so as to move beyond the sceptic vs. advocate impasse which has settled over the current debate, and to open new avenues for enquiry and understanding. Paranthropology holds no standard position on these issues and all views expressed are those of the each particular author. Paranthropology is devoted to an open-minded and exploratory perspective on a wide range of experiences, beliefs and phenomena often called paranormal, supernatural or anomalous.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 11:30

@Kitkat wrote:That's precisely what he IS doing.  http://paranthropologyjournal.weebly.com/free-pdf.html

Anthropology is not science!

You probably didn't mean to, but you've just confirmed what I've been saying.

Now, it's perfectly fine to study the paranormal qualitatively, but it's not the way to derive truth values from claims. e.g. It's possible to study what people's religious beliefs mean to them, but that cannot lead to any conclusion about whether their beliefs are based on reality.

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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 11:59

Maybe it's not science, eg the study of physical objects, but we've reached an impasse if we apply physical rules to this research. I, for one, am glad that there exist many researchers who are not content to stay in a rut but would rather investigate all things, however strange they may seem to be. Their minds are open in the spirit of pioneers. They are not making irrefutable claims. They are merely doing research.


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 14:24

You seem to be under the impression that this sort of inquiry isn't taking place elsewhere! This isn't pioneering thinking. It's just adopting and rebranding research methodologies that already exist. The problem with it arises when these qualitative, non-scientific methodologies are treated as if they're a new, paradigm-shifted way of doing science and determining truth values.

Inquiry can discover:


  • Validity

    Is the phenomenon true or false, is it supported by empirical evidence, etc?
    .
  • Utility

    Why do people believe this? What does this belief mean to people? Which sociological and cultural factors are involved? etc.

    These things are independent of a claim's validity.


Validity is determined by scientific inquiry (i.e. objectively). Empirical claims need to be made and evidence sought that can test (i.e. potentially falsify) the claim.

Utility can be investigated by using interpretive, descriptive, experiential, etc., methodologies (i.e. subjectively). These methodologies can determine why people believe, what it means to them, describe their experiences, etc., but they can't determine whether the believed-in phenomenon is true or not.

Researchers, in general, will take a 'horses for courses' approach to inquiry and choose the appropriate methodology for the type of research they're doing. Sometimes, quantitative, empirical research needs to be done (is breast or bottle feeding better for babies?) and at other times qualitative research is more appropriate (e.g. Why do women choose to breast or bottle feed?). The key here is to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each approach and use them accordingly.

The problem with the argument that we need to stop limiting ourselves by sticking to 'reductionist', 'western', 'orthodox', etc., science and adopt a 'new', 'paradigm-shifted', 'open minded' science instead is that all they're really doing is blurring the distinction between objective and subjective research methods.

The argument sounds reasonable - but it's fatally flawed. What they're proposing is that we infer objective truth values from subjective data.

Now I don't know if I've explained that particularly well, it would help if everyone was aware of research methodologies for example, but the reasoning really is flawed.

Does God exist?
- A scientific research method would need to be used to answer this. (valid)

What does belief in God mean to people?
- A qualitative methodology would need to be used (e.g. interview people). (valid)

Does God exist?
- Let's interview people who've experienced God's presence for themselves. (Invalid)


If you attempt to answer empirical questions by using subjective methodologies you cannot obtain valid answers. That applies everywhere - it's not just to do with paranormal claims.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 16:05

What if cosmologists discovered that there were indeed many dimensions--or even universes-- would you be surprised ?


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Kitkat on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 17:41

@Umberto Cocopop wrote:The problem with the argument that we need to stop limiting ourselves by sticking to 'reductionist', 'western', 'orthodox', etc., science and adopt a 'new', 'paradigm-shifted', 'open minded' science instead is that all they're really doing is blurring the distinction between objective and subjective research methods.

Having spoken with Jack Hunter, and also with Cal Cooper, another of the contributors to Paranthropology (and listened to their talks and lectures at the ASSAP conference), I got the impression regarding the research work that they are involved with and the aims of Paranthropology on the whole - that rather than "blurring the distinction between objective and subjective research methods", it would be more appropriate to say that the idea is intended to act as a blending, rather than a blurring - a working together and a sharing.  Certainly makes sense to me anyway.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 19:38

@Feather wrote:What if cosmologists discovered  that there were indeed many dimensions--or even universes-- would you be surprised ?

Not really - unless the evidence they presented to support their claim came from some people's experiences while under the influence of hallucinogenics...

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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 19:40

@Kitkat wrote:Having spoken with Jack Hunter, and also with Cal Cooper, another of the contributors to Paranthropology (and listened to their talks and lectures at the ASSAP conference), I got the impression regarding the research work that they are involved with and the aims of Paranthropology on the whole - that rather than "blurring the distinction between objective and subjective research methods", it would be more appropriate to say that the idea is intended to act as a blending, rather than a blurring - a working together and a sharing.  Certainly makes sense to me anyway.

That would just be normal research. I don't know these guys, but if they're making these sort of claims, then they're just plain wrong.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Sat 07 Jun 2014, 22:06

As I said before, they are not making any claims that I know of. What they are doing is research.


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Sun 08 Jun 2014, 12:54

@Feather wrote:What they are doing is research.

But if they're taking the approach that you've outlined in this thread then everything I've said applies to them too.

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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Sun 08 Jun 2014, 22:57

I agree, but there's no harm in what they are doing, is there?


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Mon 09 Jun 2014, 15:07

@Feather wrote:I agree, but there's no harm in what they are doing, is there?

Don't get me wrong, doing qualitative research into this area could do a great deal of good in increasing the overall understanding of the issues.

What I'm cautioning against is accepting that qualitative research methods can give rise to the sort of empirical knowledge that's gained from scientific* research methods. This isn't "new science" it's just drawing conclusions from inappropriate forms of evidence.

Remember, even very clever people can resort to all sorts of mental gymnastics when it comes to reasoning about things they want to believe in.

I have read some of the content from their journals, some of it high quality, some less so, and there definitely is a theme of accepting 'personal experience as a guide to the nature of reality' in there.







* It's not a case that scientific=good and non-scientific=bad. e.g. Discourse Analysis, which I particularly like, is non-scientific. It's still very useful though.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Mon 09 Jun 2014, 15:23

Thanks fot that. They make no secret of the fact that they set some store by personal experience. Most of what I've heard about that is very questionable to me. Hunter is thorough in that he goes way back in time to the dawn of History and before it to discover and learn about ancient philosophies. That in itself interests me. He probably wonders why such beliefs --or similar--have lasted so long and seem to be global. What do you think about that? Is it that we are dominated by fear of the unknown so we have to make it known in some form?


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Wed 11 Jun 2014, 13:12

@Feather wrote:He probably wonders why such beliefs --or similar--have lasted so long and seem to be global. What do you think about that? Is it that we are dominated by fear of the unknown so we have to make it known in some form?

We seem to be 'hard wired' for superstitious/magical thinking. You can speculate about the possible evolutionary factors that gave rise to this (and many do) but if it's a built-in tendency we have then we should expect that such beliefs will be present in all cultures in all times.

There are many proposed mechanisms by which superstitious beliefs arise. Some are explained by things such as our propensity to search for patterns, detect agency and apply meaning to events going into overdrive, whereas religion may have arisen as a product of systems of morality that arose as we started living in larger groups - power and control systems are needed in systems of morality. NOTE: if this is the case then morality gave us religion and not the other way around!

So I don't think that the fact that things such as afterlife beliefs, religions, etc., being universally present in human cultures and societies means that there must be something in them. They simply indicate that these ideas arise because of the fundamental way that humans think.


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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Kitkat on Wed 11 Jun 2014, 14:04

@Umberto Cocopop wrote:I don't think that the fact that things such as afterlife beliefs, religions, etc., being universally present in human cultures and societies means that there must be something in them. They simply indicate that these ideas arise because of the fundamental way that humans think.

I'm inclined to agree with that (last sentence).
I have seen that notion put forward before (the first sentence quoted) and have inwardly questioned it.

Environment also imposes a huge influence on humans' way of thinking - and respective environments can differ greatly from one part of the globe to another, and from one generation to another.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Umberto Cocopop on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 20:43

@Kitkat wrote:Environment also imposes a huge influence on humans' way of thinking - and respective environments can differ greatly from one part of the globe to another, and from one generation to another.

For me, it's the fact that such variables can alter the beliefs of humans that indicates the ultimate source of the belief is within us.

Gods have 'existed' throughout human history as far back, and as wide reaching, as we can go but I wonder just how many versions there have been? This suggests to me that we create gods to suit our needs (which are based on how we think) and not because there really is or are god(s) out there.

So, lots of variations on themes based on time or location (i.e. environmental factors) indicates that the root of these beliefs is the human mind.
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Re: Matter can be created from light - scientists will demonstrate

Post by Feather on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 20:54

That begs the question-what is in us? This leads on then to the old chestnut as to whether the mind is just the brain or does the mind exist outside the brain which would be merely a relay station.


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